ICYMI: Kaine Joins CNN The Lead to Discuss His Bipartisan Bill to Repeal 1991 & 2002 AUMFs
WASHINGTON, D.C. – On Thursday, U.S. Senator Tim Kaine (D-VA), along with U.S. Senator Todd Young (R-IN), joined CNN’s The Lead with Jake Tapper to discuss their bipartisan bill to repeal the 1991 and 2002 Authorizations for Use of Military Force (AUMFs). The repeal of the 1991 and 2002 AUMFs would formally end the Gulf and Iraq wars decades after Congress authorized them. The bill would reassert Congress’ constitutional role in deciding whether and when to send our servicemembers into harm’s way and prevent potential misuse of war authorizations by future presidents.
On why repealing the 1991 and 2002 AUMFs matter, Kaine said: “Well, first, these are congressional powers under Article One, and too many congresses of both parties have abdicated this responsibility to presidents of both parties, usually, because they don't have the backbone to like, put their name on the line when it comes to war. So both Todd and I believe Article One matters. Congress should be deeply involved in this. It's our job.
“Second, Iraq's not an enemy anymore. These, these were war authorizations against an Iraq, ultimately leading to the toppling of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’athist party. Iraq is now a security partner of the United States in the fight against ISIS, in the fight against Iranian bellicose activity in the region. Why have a war authorization against a nation that is your partner?
“And finally, I think it sends a good message – a great thing about America – we have had a capacity to take nations we've been at war with and then end up as allies: Germany, the UK, Japan. And it's good to send that message that a nation that's been in war with the United States, we're open to making the relationship better and other nations have been too. I think that's an important message to send.”
Kaine continued, “And I’ll just go back to something Todd said. We got to have backbone. Todd had backbone when he enlisted in the Marine Corps. My son had backbone when he went into the Marine Corps. If our troops have the backbone to say they’re going to defend this country, then Congress can’t be chicken in making decisions about war, peace, and diplomacy. We got to put our name on the line.”
A full transcript is below:
Jake Tapper: Joining us now for bipartisan conversation, Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia and Republican Senator Todd Young of Indiana. They've introduced legislation today that gets at a critical issue, the War Powers Act, who gets to decide, when, where, how long American forces are sent into harm’s way.
And this show is almost ten years old. I think you've been coming on the show to talk about the War Powers Act for the last decade.
Senator Tim Kaine: My entire ten years in the Senate, and it was very lonely at the start, and then along the way, have picked up more and more support. But I'll say Todd Young of Indiana has been a fantastic comrade on this the last few years.
Tapper: So, I want to get to that in one second, but I do want to ask about Ukraine, which is, Ukraine now asking for fighter jets. There was a time when Biden said no tanks, now there are tanks going there. Do you think that Zelenskyy should get fighter jets from the U.S.?
Kaine: You know, Todd may have a different opinion than me. I've never served in the military. I’m on Armed Services. I’ve got a kid who’s a Marine. But I don't micromanage which is the right platform at the time. What I do exercise oversight is what's the degree of communication that we have with Ukrainian defense forces so they're making the asks and we’re assessing them and then in real time making decisions. And as long as that communication is strong, I feel like we'll get to the right answer.
Tapper: What do you think because some of your colleagues including Senator Roger Wicker is saying that the Biden Administration needs to do much more so that the Ukrainians can push back this Russian offensive?
Senator Todd Young: You know, my default position is to listen to their military commanders, working with our military commanders, and in the end, I think consistently we've made the right decisions about sending them material. I wish those decisions would be made more quickly.
When we think about a potential future conflict with Taiwan, there won't be -- there won't be much time to afford delays in these sorts of decisions. So waiting a few additional weeks for tanks, most recently, could jeopardize the Taiwanese effort in a future conflict. We need to remedy that. And hopefully if we do, we can bring this conflict in Ukraine to a close all the quicker.
Tapper: So, let's talk about the War Powers Act. The Gulf and Iraq war authorizations, as people may or may not realize, they're still on the books and still being used in many cases. You and Senator Young introduced legislation to repeal the 1991 and 2002 Authorizations for Use of Military Force, why?
Kaine: Well, first, these are congressional powers under Article One, and too many congresses of both parties have abdicated this responsibility to presidents of both parties, usually because they don't have the backbone to like, put their name on the line when it comes to war. So both Todd and I believe Article One matters. Congress should be deeply involved in this. It's our job.
Second, Iraq's not an enemy anymore. These, these were war authorizations against an Iraq, ultimately leading to the toppling of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’athist party. Iraq is now a security partner of the United States in the fight against ISIS, in the fight against Iranian bellicose activity in the region. Why have a war authorization against a nation that is your partner?
And finally, I think it sends a good message - a great thing about America - we have had a capacity to take nations we've been at war with and then end up as allies: Germany, the UK, Japan. And it's good to send that message that a nation that's been in war with the United States, we're open to making the relationship better and other nations have been too. I think that's an important message to send.
Tapper: Why is it important to you? I mean, I think that theoretically a lot of Republicans believe in a strong executive branch and don't -- I don't know if that's you, that that describes you -- but the legislative branch should defer. What's your take?
Young: Well, you're right, a lot of Republicans do. And I think Tim did a really good job of outlining the legal arguments, moral arguments, and near-term national security considerations.
Let me focus on the latter. Every Republican agrees we should counter Iran, and there's no more important country in that effort than Iraq, so we need to partner with the newly formed government of Iraq. Prime Minister al Sudani is prepared to work with the Americans, but more importantly, Middle East partners throughout the region to ensure the terrorist state of Iran doesn't form a land bridge through Iraq, into Syria, down through Lebanon, endangering Israel and beyond. And so, the best way we can do that right now is to affirm our support, our friendship with the people of Iraq.
Tapper: But he also points out and it's true, one of the reasons this hasn't happened is because it's a lot easier to just defer to the president of the United States, and if things go great, you wave the flag. And if things go bad, then you can criticize it and not actually have to as a lawmaker take a position.
Young: We've been doing that for decades now, and frankly, giving up our legal prerogatives but also failing to live up to our responsibility, something Tim spoke to. As members of Congress, we need to make hard decisions -- hard decisions about when you enter conflicts, how those conflicts are carried on, which we do through oversight responsibilities. And ultimately, after we authorize military force, we need to deauthorize force when the conflict has ended. That's what Tim and I are focused on here.
Tapper: Is it going to happen? Is it going to succeed this time?
Kaine: I feel very, very good about it. We filed today with 22 sponsors in the Senate, 11 Democrats and 11 Republicans, which means we have the votes to get it through the Senate. And I predict when we get to a floor vote, it'll be like two thirds that we'll get to. While the Senate is usually slow and the House is fast, this may be one the Senate will act first. The House patrons on this are really interesting -- Barbara Lee, Chip Roy, Tom Cole, Abigail Spanberger -- very broad ideological group.
And I’ll just go back to something Todd said. We got to have backbone. Todd had backbone when he enlisted in the Marine Corps. My son had backbone when he went into the Marine Corps. If our troops have the backbone to say they’re going to defend this country, then Congress can’t be chicken in making decisions about war, peace, and diplomacy. We got to put our name on the line.
Young: Just to illustrate how absurd this is, I entered the United States Navy right after high school. That was in 1990. A few months later, the 1991 first Gulf War authorization. Congress has not repealed it since then. It's time we get back --
Tapper: You still look 18, 19 years old.
Young: Thank you so much. You have a future in politics.
Tapper: Please don't, don't. Thanks to both of you, really appreciate it. Stay in touch and we'll keep covering this.
Young: Thanks, Jake.
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